T5 Hybrid conversion: would you be interested?

Mild Hybrid is nonsense. Only lowers the fuel consumption slightly in low load NEFZ / WLTP cycle.
In real life situations for a heavy car pointless.
Am I wrong or that mild hybrid looks working as full electric as well? They put a RWD implant, it could go alone, but I can be wrong. However it could speed up a 2.0 AXA driving uphill... (without changing the engine and fuel consumption) so you keep low taxation, and low insurance fees, and a better mileage.

I said since the start that the panel thing is just ideology, pure garbage. Never said it could help.

The Toyota however, shows it's possible a full hybrid conversion. That's why taking as example a big and heavy SUV, that gets heavier coz the full electrification, without a gearbox and must compete with the tesla is pretty pointless (TBH the whole e-tron thing is pointless imo). Also, the Toy Alphard is a cut above the Vw Tx by every point of view, so if it can stay under 2300 the Vw should stay as well.

The engines in the example I brought in before, are 2 in-wheels engines. There's a company from Slovenia (in-wheel.com), they sell a type of engine which weights 18kg each one, power output is 23kw at 100v or 11kw at 48v (but it's not the type the italians used in their cars, it's just to give an idea about the weights). The controllers are usually used and easily lifted up by a single person in the TV shows where they convert cars, so I doubt it could weight more than 20 kg.
So far we are at 60kg.
A prius has a 8,8kw battery (and they are old NiMH! not LIPO, LION or LIFE), so let's make out 12kw for a van that has not to drive as fast as a car. A LG chem battery (used for vehicle conversions) whose capacity is 6,5kw weights 52kg.
So far we are at less than 170kg; I would say that it would safely add less than 200kg at the van (but it's still 170kg).
Of course you have to renounce to some of the utility of the van, but you can drive it in the downtown (not in that famous essen's autobahn tract, of course).
Than, you can go up to 250kg to get a 18kw battery...

I think it's not impossible at all; it's just that everybody in the "circle of those who are ruling us" are against this type of stuff. In fact, if you need a single approval each time for each vehichle, well,... I don't need to add more. So it would be pointless for the italians to come to work for the german market, as opposite of what I believed, that was the reson that lead me to open this thread.

I wonder now, if Vw will sell the kit to convert the bug and the split/bay/vanagon, will ppl buy it if you need to waste 2000/3000 teuro in pure bureacracy for each car?
 
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- T5 als mild-hybrid? there is an existing solution by a VW technical partner corporation.

to me it looks the same of getting a random 4motion, taking away the transmission from the front differental and plugging in an electric engine, tho... Don't need an axle made on porpouse for such a thing. You can get an easy multimodal this way... Again, the real problem is the software management.
 
m I wrong or that mild hybrid looks working as full electric as well?

Yes, you are wrong. By definition a mild hybrid doesn't do any electric driving. It just uses a very small battery that is used to frequently restart the engine.

The engines in the example I brought in before, are 2 in-wheels engines. There's a company from Slovenia (in-wheel.com), they sell a type of engine which weights 18kg each one, power output is 23kw at 100v or 11kw at 48v

23kW at 100V will need 230A. That puts a huge stress on the battery. That is the reason, that all PHEV use 300-400V battery voltage.

A prius has a 8,8kw battery (and they are old NiMH! not LIPO, LION or LIFE), so let's make out 12kw for a van that has not to drive as fast as a car.

With a 12kWh battery in a T5 (around 10kWh usable) you will get a range of maybe 30km. It's a big and heavy car the needs a lot of energy to move. - AND: You will only get that range with very efficient recuperation.

A LG chem battery (used for vehicle conversions) whose capacity is 6,5kw weights 52kg.

Next wrong assumption. If you are using 50kW out of such a battery it will get VERY hot. Almost all PHEV use water cooled batteries - especially the heavier ones. Otherwise you will toast the battery and also loose 30-40% of the capacity.

The total weight penalty for an Audi PHEV with a 14kW battery is at least 200-300kg compared to the petrol version.
 
Yes, you are wrong. By definition a mild hybrid doesn't do any electric driving. It just uses a very small battery that is used to frequently restart the engine.

What a mess for nothing. I don't really understand how a rear axle can start a front positioned engine, but anyway this mod just for a little mild hybrid looks pointless.


23kW at 100V will need 230A. That puts a huge stress on the battery. That is the reason, that all PHEV use 300-400V battery voltage.

Not even close. Batteries can normally undergo to 300A/400A or 500A discharge, depending on the battery type. And this is the normal use, because, exceptionally, they can undergo to discharge peaks up to 800A.
Like this:
and this:


With a 12kWh battery in a T5 (around 10kWh usable) you will get a range of maybe 30km. It's a big and heavy car the needs a lot of energy to move. - AND: You will only get that range with very efficient recuperation.

Tell me where to sign...


Next wrong assumption. If you are using 50kW out of such a battery it will get VERY hot. Almost all PHEV use water cooled batteries - especially the heavier ones. Otherwise you will toast the battery and also loose 30-40% of the capacity.

I don't get which is my wrong assumption, but ok.


The total weight penalty for an Audi PHEV with a 14kW battery is at least 200-300kg compared to the petrol version.

Not far from my 250kg... again tell me where to sign. A T5 multivan startline weights 1800/1900kg, so we are at the same of the Toy Alphard.
But there's more: the T5's weight capacity can be increased easily, infact you can get the proper suspensions and register at the TUV your 3500kg of total weight


Once again, the only real problem here is the software. Then I was wrong believing to such prices I post at first; it's enough to see the prices of the batteries I posted here to see that these prices are not realistic. Even if a company can get a good supply chain, 4000 euro are not enough for the batteries alone. But this is a price-benefit matter, not something that makes a conversion impossible.
In my case, imo, if I have to choose between:
1) a brand new T6.1 california ocean (or whatever it's called the new one equipped with the forniture), fitted with the tiny and sad 4 banger TDI E6DTEMP
and
2) a fully reconditioned, hybrid converted california comfortline T5, fitted with the 2.5TDI (like your engine, @MarcusMüller ),
I'd choose the latter any day. I don't need a brand new "ecologic" diesel that will be banned in 7/8 years, losing all its value, because then it pollutes too much.
An hybrid van, instead, is definitive; some well spent money. Better if coupled with the 2.5TDI that "naturally" delivers some real 400nm, without tricks, cheats or stupid ideas like 2 turbos.
But this is just my position. Since the prices are different from the ones I posted as first, this thread has partially lost its point. X__X
 
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I quote myself:

"a brand new T6.1 california ocean, fitted with the tiny and sad 4 banger TDI E6DTEMP"


No offense intended against the fellow-owners of the newer T5 and T6, we are all victims here. "They" are joking us with this newly shaped environmentalism, and with the piece of theater of the emissions laws.
"They" took away a cylinder from us to end up to allow the carmakers-accomplices on cheating the emissions test... And we get punished. Always against US.


Forgive my vent.
 
What a mess for nothing. I don't really understand how a rear axle can start a front positioned engine, but anyway this mod just for a little mild hybrid looks pointless.

Definition of a mild hybrid (Wikipedia):

Mild hybrids (also known as power-assist hybrids, battery-assisted hybrid vehicles or BAHVs) are generally cars with an internal combustion engine equipped with an electric machine (one motor/generator in a parallel hybrid configuration) allowing the engine to be turned off whenever the car is coasting, braking, or stopped, yet restart quickly. Mild hybrids may employ regenerative braking and some level of power assist to the internal combustion engine (ICE), but mild hybrids do not have an electric-only mode of propulsion.
 
Just to clarify that: Of course plug-in hybrids are possible and work well - I have got one myself.

It‘s just not possible to convert a 12 year old car into a working PHEV for 3000€.
 
Just to clarify that: Of course plug-in hybrids are possible and work well - I have got one myself.

Not all the hybrids in the market, as I've seen. Probably the opposite, id est 1 out of 10 hybrids is a real hybrid, but I still can't name one.
I kept learing and searching about that toyota van, because I was curious about how much power its battery holds.
I found nothing for a while until I ended up visitng this chinese site in which they sell regenerated battery packs for cars, from toyota to GM:
it says that the battery is a 216v and 6,5ah, that is just 1,4Watt!
With such a few power I can drive it out of my garage, then I need the gasoline.
This is more a cheat than other. Such van has nothing ecologic, and the fuel consumption doesn't improve as someone could believe. Probably, it gets worse, instead, due to the weight.

So I looked for other toyotas, and it's even worse: the Prius 2 gets a battery of just 1,3KW only! I mean, the mythical car of the "solution"... if you get a Prius you are the "solution", if you get an V8 you are the "problem"...
There is this guy here:
who says:
"I was able to run on electric-only up to about 35 miles per hour for about a minute before the engine kicked in."
🤣
I mean... come one... PPL... Just 1,3KW - LOL!!! This is NOT hybrid.

This is a complete cheat. Smoke in the eyes.
If I think to an hybrid car, I expect that it can drive at 50km/h for 40km at least, otherwise it's garbage. I expect a 30kw battery at least, not 1kw to power up the internal light. With such a tiny battery, the idea of the solar panels is the opposite of wrong, they can easily recharge it.
That seen, the mild hybrids don't look so much stupid anymore.

It‘s just not possible to convert a 12 year old car into a working PHEV for 3000€.
I admitted this myself in before:
Even if a company can get a good supply chain, 4000 euro are not enough for the batteries alone.
but if such is the situation, well... no. I withdraw it.

You can convert a car of any age for 1500/2000€. A 1,5KW NI-MH battery, for this nonsense, costs less than 1000 and the engine could be a siemes engine recycled from an american milk-delivery van (ebay). Once again the only real problem is the software.

Of course this thing of hybrid cars is a complete joke and a cheat, and it's a shame that the governments are pushing for this with exemption from drive bans and economical incentives to buy them.
In order to see the first real hybrid van we have to wait few weeks for VAG to sell the T7, or at least is what I hope. T7 that however will get the tiny 1.4tsi from the Polos... :( Like "I give you this with my right hand but I take from you that with my left hand".
Get ready for 1L of oil each 1000km.
 
it says that the battery is a 216v and 6,5ah, that is just 1,4Watt!
Check your calculator ;-) Anyways, the idea of Toyota Hybrid design is just to support the gas engine. And btw. HQ NiMH are far more expensive than chinese LiXX chemistry, but come up to last forever. My oldest NiMH SAFT STM cells are about 20 years old and are still good for 80%. Nevertheless, they are very heavy and not maintenance free :-), nothing for noobs.
 
Sorry, I was meaning 1,4Kilowatt (aka enough to feed the klima for 1 hour) but that was already clear.
Autoexpress says that the Prius 2's akkus are about 1100 pounds:
and my local toyota dealer told me that an ORIGINAL auris pack is 2000 euro, and the fact that he told me in such a way means that some cars have already got a new pack swapped in such shop. No good, seen that the auris is not an old model.
While the tamiya mini-4WD like ni-mh akkus found in such cars are full of defects (see memory effect, weight and short life span), the LiXX are the future, even toyota are using them right now; for their prices check out the american website selling the rebuilt chinese-made LG chem, Samsung and so on; all them made using the bolivian lithium (just to keep up with the wolrd tour). Tesla Li-ion batteries can last virtually forever if they are kept charged between the 80% and 30%, if I remember correctly.
Chinese carmakers are a way more advanced in the manufacturing of electric cars when compared to european and american carmakers; in the meantime Japs look not very interested in that. I would buy chinese parts for electric cars anytime.
 
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